In the meantime, he offers an excellent online course , based partly on Malcom Murray’s book The Atheist’s Primer. I am glad that it turned out to be a good experience for you. If he does know Aramaic, he gives no clear indication of it. White’s post-debate report of the debate is HERE, which is a good listen.Here is part 2 of White’s review of the debate. Received from who? (here’s Midwestern’s report of the debate) Jim Elliff, a man I knew from my days as a Reformed Baptist, thinks debating Bart Ehrman is a bad idea: -2 Peter 1:16 states that there were some who claimed Jesus to be a myth. However I do have one question, Dr. Price stated that Galatians 1:18-19 was never quoted by the church fathers therefore this was a later addition. Dr. Ehrman, in The Deliverance of God: An Apocalyptic Rereading of Justification in Paul, D. Campbell is showing after a very complex process that Rom 13 is actually not a paulin thought at all like Rom 1:18 to 4:1. Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. I find the mythicist argument to be irritating and annoying, like a fly that won’t go away. James, described as a church pillar, but apparently not an apostle, is mentioned four times in Paul’s letters. April 5, 2014. Well, I have to admit, he can be a bit aggravating. Was Jesus Born in Bethlehem? Strauss said: “when we find details in the life of Jesus evidently sketched after the pattern of these prophecies and prototypes, we cannot but suspect that they are rather mythical than historical. See something we missed? Sarah A. Schnitker, Jay Medenwaldt, and Lizzy Davis. Richard Carrier does what accuses the interpreters of Tacito and Suetonius to do, manipulating the data much more than what is explicitly there. But those who confront him should not be afraid to push back with reason and common sense. William Lane Craig speaks at Gracepoint Berkeley Church on The Work of Bart Ehrman. Have something to add about this? Dr. Ehrman stated affirmatively that he had read “Bart Ehrman and the Quest of the Historical Jesus of Nazareth”. The big problem is that the author of Revelation wrote in terrible Greek, and you can’t even trust regular rules of Greek grammar to figure out what he’s doing. He seems like a nice person but whoa! —Bart Ehrman from our debate. by Neil Godfrey . For example, Mark 5:41 He took her by the hand and said to her, “Talitha koum!” (which means “Little girl, I say to you, get up!”). I have watched many hours of his interviews and am quite surprised that he never really fully discounts Jesus’ existence. On April 4, 2014 I debated Dr. Bart Ehrman on the campus of the University of North Alabama in Florence, Alabama. Traditional Judaism then (and now) does not like translations very much, though it was more accepting of Aramaic (such as the Onkelos) than of Greek (ie, the LXX). Bart argued that the Jesus presented in the Gospel of John is radically different than the Jesus presented in the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke). What makes you think some of them don’t believe what they’re saying? But some unquestionably are fabrications. Yeah, Price speaks more slowly in a rather monotone voice, so it’s more about listening carefully to his point. You can go to conservative websites and see people saying this or that denier of evolution or global warming totally confuted and defeated the mainstream scholars he debated with at this or that event. All comments will be moderated by the post author before release. I recently had an experience with several atheists which, to my surprise, made me realize that some atheists have the same narrow, closed mindedness and dogmatic certainty that I have spent decades trying to escape in Fundamentalists. by Neil Godfrey . Stylistic flourishes could, I suppose, have some from some other tradition. I didn’t mean to make fun of him, it was just an immediate reaction… But we got along fine afterward. In this debate, Dr. Bart Ehrman pointed out that mythicists are often perceived as just wanting to drop a bomb on Christian theology. It is likely that there in 1 Co 9.5 there are no other believers, but perhaps even “brothers”, of blood, as mentioned in the gospels that Jesus had. Twice! No he doesn’t mumble he just (as Dr. Ehrman said) never repeats himself. So did Buddha. One question though – the name of Margaret Barker came up several times. But NO, I definitely do not think Aramaic sources means “eyewitnesses” and have explained repeated why, in the past, it is just the opposite. Yes, I apologized later for laughing when he said he thought Paul didn’t write Galatians. So Join! I had committed to a public debate with the prominent agnostic New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman. He saw himself as a sinful mortal man, conceived in the usual way, who badly needed such forgiveness, and then had a private vision, in which he was called to start his own ministry. You also state, “My view now is that we do not know, and cannot know, what actually happened to Jesus’ body” (157). Three women have come forward with additional allegations against the late Christian apologist. Professor Ehrman presented a logical synopsis of how Jesus actually did exist. Three of the four verses listed are in Galatas. In Galatians, Paul identifies James as the Brother in the first chapter, it is not necessary to repeat his qualification in the same letter. To share this article with your friends, use any of the social share buttons on our site, or simply copy the link below. Today I will go into a full analysis (or what I think of as full at least) of the debate, with some (hopefully constructive) criticism on both sides and my two cents… And I’m kind-a thinking that I’ve already debated one mythicist, and probably that’s enough. I have massive respect for Robert Price. Does the Gospel of Mark Deny a Virgin Birth? Don”t suppose there is any chance of your debating Earl Doherty next is there? You are referencing other verses within 1 Cor 15. What really bothers me are those who know Jesus was a real person but promote the mythicist view anyway. Bart Ehrman posted the debate audio on YouTube: Details: Bart Ehrman is the US author of the bestselling book “Misquoting Jesus” (In the UK “Whose word is it?”). 4.25 stars: There is a lot detail packed into this epic debate. Are there any non-disputed passages in Paul’s 7 letters that use archon in a way that cannot be taken to mean heavenly principalities? “For years I’ve been asked by people to debate a mythicist; I’ve always resisted, in part because I’ve thought that by doing so I would lend credibility to their view, which, in my judgment, is not credible”. The fact is, humans tend to shape and sort their real-life experiences into mythical templates (we do this today; we just mainly don’t know we’re doing it). How many years do you want to spend defending a silly pointless idea that most fundamentalist Christians never give a solitary waking thought? Transcript. That’s why we can enjoy each other’s stories, and learn from them. My Take on the Debate Between Bart Ehrman and Daniel Wallace Finally the long awaited debate between two able textual critics, Bart Ehrman and Daniel Wallace took place at SMU campus in Dallas. Later, after doing the research, I realized it really was improbable. Matt Dillahunty was the debate mediator. A look inside CT’s reporting and what it means for Christian witness and evangelism. I'd never debate Ehrman (whom I like), but not for the reasons you won't debate me (you'll notice the difference is I don't just disparage Bart left and right with insults). However, it is important that, while coming to entirely different conclusions, we understand the basis for each others narratives. I read one of Price’s books who seems to think there was a political conspiracy involved with Paul’s writings. Glad to join here. Carrier and Price have contributed absolutely nothing. But we can’t be sure, and we shouldn’t pretend to be sure. But the fact is, we do see the same stories told in many cultures, and the similarities can’t all be based on cross-cultural pollination. Jung’s ideas are taken more seriously in psychology than in some other areas of study, mainly because they can’t really be proven. I just ordered my 8th book authored by Bart and consider myself one of his students….His New Testament textbook is one of my favorites. He calls into question the authority of the New Testament as scribal changes over time have changed the documents. No, I think that is a misunderstanding of the verse. Maybe Pilate actually did have a guilty conscience after speaking to Jesus, and sending a man he knew to be harmless to the cross. Of course “brother” has a double meaning, depending on context, literally or figuratively, today and 2000 years ago. So did Muhammad. Don’t these two English words imply different meanings in our usage? He framed this point such that he clearly intended the audience to believe those two facts entail that these features derive from (a) multiple (b) eyewitness sources.”. 1. This is the debate. Question 2: Dr. Price mentioned two places (one in Revelation, I forget where the other comes from – Hebrews, maybe?) Watching this debate is the reason I was pointed out of the direction of mythicism. Bart Ehrman posted the debate audio on YouTube: Details: Bart Ehrman is the US author of the bestselling book “Misquoting Jesus” (In the UK “Whose word is it?”). Ehrman was talking about the facts of what we know. a number of traditions can be traced to Aramaic sources. I don’t think I know him. Over the next five months, I dedicated no less than 50 hours a week to preparing. 2. For his speaking fees and scheduling possibilities, please contact him directly using the contact form by access of the button on the left. Mythicist Milwaukee focuses on educating the freethought/skeptic/atheist community about what the organization considers to be the mythological origins of religion. Bart Ehrman on the Existence of Jesus Author Amy K. Hall Published on 09/27/2016 Greg mentioned this quote from skeptic Bart Ehrman a couple of weeks ago on the podcast , and I was able to find a video. Were things still cordial between you after the debate? Held at College of the Holy Cross, Worcester, Massachusetts on March 28, 2006. He actually made a good argument for that position, but I still disagree with it. It would seem much in the text is simply invented. Paul does not say where or when this Christ died, buried or raised. He’s just trying to destroy the very field of study he makes his living in. But, and this may sound like sour grapes, it had a lot to do with the performance of your opponent. For his speaking fees and scheduling possibilities, please contact him directly using the contact form by access of the button on the left. Maybe someone has. Thanks. UNC Chapel Hill Professor Bart Ehrman has made quite a name for himself as a critic of the New Testament documents. Why did I choose to face this giant? As I began my journey of deconverting from Christianity I was being mislead into the myth philosophy after reading “Who Was Jesus?” by D.M. You’ll never convert the diehards but I thought you made the case for historicity succintly and well. Dr, I have just watched this debate in full , so I apologize for going back two years lol! I had never heard of Bart Ehrman before but the exact opposite happened in this debate. I’ve been blessed by my friendships with debate opponents, despite strong disagreements. If you would like to ask a question, simply ask it in your comment. Paul does not call Christians in his greeting as “brothers of the Lord”. If you don’t belong to the blog yet, JOIN!!! 1 Cor 15 is a gold mine for the mythicist interpretation. Comments posted must be limited to 200 words or less. The whole debate will therefore turn upon Dr. Ehrman's response to my second contention, namely: (II) The best explanation of these facts is that Jesus rose from the dead. Remember, he received his Gospel from no man, but only from Christ himself. I dissected his previous debate with the prominent Christian philosopher William Lane Craig and thought through how to respond if Ehrman were to make the same points and rebuttals. Thanks for sharing this debate Bart. Bart Ehrman debates James White on Did the Bible Misquote Jesus? Actually Carrier has developed interesting arguments against theism. Answer–he wouldn’t have needed or sought baptism–unless he never had any such idea of himself. The relationship Paul identifies in Galatians 3:13 between Christ’s crucifixion and Deuteronomy 21:22-23 is interesting because it is the one place in the typology argument where a mythicist might argue the New Testament crucifixion act itself is typology. It made me think that Price may have got some of his ideas from him. The opening salvo this year comes courtesy of the indefatigable Bart Ehrman. In 2 Peter 1.16, 17 he is not trying to defend that there was a human Jesus, which was quite obvious, but to defend the miraculous things that happened. Ehrman repeats a lot of what he argued in the 2006 debate, even on issues where Craig had corrected him. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. No, I”ve never been asked to debate him. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. Because our understanding of reality is always imperfect, always changing, always subject to questions, you can always poke holes in somebody else’s argument. At one point in the debate, Ehrman brings up a hypothetical scenario in which an investigator 2,000 years from now comes upon a story about two men, Bart Ehrman and Peter Williams, who travel through London to a debate that never happens. 2020 Schedule of Speaking Engagements Professor Bart Ehrman is much sought after as a speaker for colleges, universities, divinity schools, civic groups, and religious organizations of all types. Still, some In general what do you think of her work? Crazy. Last night I gave you a little teaser about the debate I attended between Kyle Butt and Dr. Bart Ehrman. Share your feedback here. Click Here for all Posts in a List Format. Paul made it as clear as anyone possibly could that he knew Jesus had been a living breathing human being. If there were no witnesses, how do we know what was said even if we knew what languages were spoken? As for the other side of the argument, Apostle Paul is a conundrum. Why did Bart Ehrman really leave Christianity? Who is probably better documented than most religious leaders in ancient history. – Preview video of debate by Mythicist Milwaukee: As Ehrman states in the chapter on the NT canon, there were a few NT documents that only made the … And got basic facts wrong. Who is probably better documented than most religious leaders in ancient history.”. 1. We know there are as many differences in the manuscripts as there are words in the New Testament texts. Paul himself never claims Jesus to be an historical person. What do you think is the correct understanding of the verse? At first, James White’s academic credentials look impressive: B.A. That isn’t good scholarship, and how has he ‘won’ his arguments? Please keep your comments relevant to the issues discussed in the post. Got bored with it because i could not get all of what he was saying. But judge not lest ye be judged. But there’s an awful lot we don’t know about how the Roman system operated. Paul spoke to the Athenians at the Ahora about the “unknown” god. Michael R. Licona | June 21, 2019 “Why do you call me good? I noticed Price shut down after you mocked his belief that Paul didn’t write Galatians. You are correct, of course, to say, “We do not know, and cannot know.” Nonetheless, it seems fair to say, based on the ancient sources you reference, that it’s not only plausible that Jesus’ body was left on the cross but also that it’s probable that’s what happened. God already had a son (Jesus), so that Paul and his church followers would become “brothers of the Lord”. Why would anyone say somethhing like, so and so “even admits” something when that something is something that everyone thinks? Bart Ehrman debates James White on Did the Bible Misquote Jesus? Want To See My New Book Manuscript? By all accounts Ehrman decidedly won the debate. He emphasizes a miraculous event, narrated in the Gospels, which is the transfiguration. I am most interested here to the variety of languages spoken and what languages the participants spoke to each other and how do we know what those languages were.